MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Willy Wonka]

GAC-UST

*Phil Wirtjes is a gamer.  I'd hate him as an opponent, but would love to have that kid on my team.

*Robbie DAN Schmidknecht had a tough night & he's another tough competitor.

In reading the GAC game story I see they mentioned they'll be honoring Paulson, Jesse Van Sickle, & Ryan McPartland at Sr Recognition Day on Saturday, but no mention of Mychal Crowder. Willy- maybe he & UST's Teddy Archer will be 5th year seniors for their respective squads next year?  

I'm sure the UST fans will love Crowder just as much as the Gusties will not love to see a possible return by Teddy Archer.

One correction for you, Drake. Danny Schmidtknecht, not Robbie.

PI - Burtzel's numbers are all relative. I mean, Brown apparently sucked and Nicolai was probably the third most important Tommies in last night's win with a line of 9-2-4.

That leaves Burtzel, who put up his usual efficient numbers in a crucial win. SJU could still finish 6th and hurt Burtzel's case...but they could also finish as high as 3rd now, I think.

[Willy Wonka]

Also, some interesting happenings down in Winona last night.

SMU actually played some defense (!!!!) in holding Fong to a 1-11 shooting night.

More importantly, Holland was getting his Shuffle on to the tune of 32 points. He hit his first 10 shots from the floor and finished 12-15. Tough night to be little Alfie...

I still maintain Holland is at least as good as Nicolai, if not better. I've posted their overall stats below for comparison. At the very least, it'd be interesting to see how they'd fare if the roles were reversed.

Holland
14.7 PPG
4.0 RPG
2.4 APG
46% FG
43% 3 pt
79% FT
.6 SPG
.1 BPG
1.6 TO
33.6 minutes

Nicolai
14.6 PPG
2.0 RPG
2.1 APG
49% FG
43% 3 pt
74% FT
1.7 SPG
.1 BPG
.8 TO
29.3 minutes

[Nites]

• Did anyone see Paulson's alleged elbow to Leslie?

Shouldn't you be asking whether anyone saw Paulson at all?  Zero points and 4 boards in 17 minutes of playing time.  He did, however, record his 4th blocked shot of the season.

[jquentint]

[
UPDATE: Why wasn't Archer included in the senior class recognition tonight? He's listed as a senior on the UST web site and has played varsity for the past three seasons. I really hope that was an oversight because I'm not sure I can handle another year with Archer in my life...
[/quote]

I believe he is applying for a medical redshirt that goes back to his freshman year

[Drake Palmer]

GAC-UST

*Phil Wirtjes is a gamer.  I’d hate him as an opponent, but would love to have that kid on my team.

*Robbie DAN Schmidknecht had a tough night & he’s another tough competitor.

In reading the GAC game story I see they mentioned they'll be honoring Paulson, Jesse Van Sickle, & Ryan McPartland at Sr Recognition Day on Saturday, but no mention of Mychal Crowder. Willy- maybe he & UST's Teddy Archer will be 5th year seniors for their respective squads next year? 

I'm sure the UST fans will love Crowder just as much as the Gusties will not love to see a possible return by Teddy Archer.

One correction for you, Drake. Danny Schmidtknecht, not Robbie.

Dang, I know that.    I must have been thinking about a former Gustie hooper "Schmidt" sans the "knecht."   

[sumander]

Take the J's; bet the ranch! 

I'm holding Sum accountable if I lose.

Calling Drake Palmer, Mr. Drake Palmer......I will take my half of the ranch I am sure you bet last night! Thank you very much.

[Drake Palmer]

Take the J's; bet the ranch! 

I'm holding Sum accountable if I lose.

Calling Drake Palmer, Mr. Drake Palmer......I will take my half of the ranch I am sure you bet last night! Thank you very much.

Sensei Jr.  - thanks for the tip. I'm so glad I wasn't stranded in C-ville last night & forced to hold up a sign like this:

Or like this



Bless you. 

[Nites]

Take the J's; bet the ranch! 

I'm holding Sum accountable if I lose.

Calling Drake Palmer, Mr. Drake Palmer......I will take my half of the ranch I am sure you bet last night! Thank you very much.

Good call, Sum +k

[sumander]

Given my Pick' Em history I suspect it was more a case of this:



Than a case of this:

[Gregory Sager]

Last one, and then I'm finished with this (I promise, MIACers!):

Lord love a duck, AO, read the posts correctly, willya? I never said that "Joldersma shouldn't try and go pro." I said that Joldersma was never going to play in the NBA. See that ever-so-slight difference there?   Sheesh.

So you thought Joldersma would find a steady job playing basketball overseas?  Let's just say you're leaning towards advocating these types of players stay home as the odds are very small they'll make millions playing basketball.  I'm leaning towards letting the individual make their own decision and support them whatever they choose.

I said nothing about Joldersma's chances of playing overseas during that MIAC room discussion back in '99. He had already signed with a team in Nationale I (France's C league) when the conversation took place. The contention of the MIACers who got so upset with me was that Joldersma's French contract was going to be his springboard to an eventual NBA career.

Look, you seem to think that I have some sort of a Svengali-like hold on Ray Brown. Let me say it again, since you obviously missed it the first time: I don't know Ray Brown. I doubt that I've even met anyone in person who knows Ray Brown. He will make his own decision. He will make it without me. Fear not, for I have reconciled myself to the fact that I lack omnipotence.

As for your comment, "Let's say that you're leaning towards advocating these types of players stay home as the odds are very small they'll make millions playing basketball," let's not say that, OK? Fact one: Joldersma had his degree, and in this hypothetical instance Ray Brown won't. Fact two: I had and have no knowledge of Joldersma's personal life (nor did I or do I want any), but, given that he was a Bethel student, I think it's a reasonable guess that he hadn't already fathered two children back when he went off to the land of wine and croissants to play ball eleven years ago. Ray Brown does have two children. Their situations are as unalike as can be.

I'm not deciding anything for Ray Brown. He doesn't know me from Adam, and even if he did he's not going to cede control over his life to me. Here's what I know, though, and I'll spell it out crystal-clear for you so that we can end this discussion once and for all: If his decision is to leave school without a degree, leave his children behind, and move to a foreign country where he may not make much money, then based upon those three hypotheticals without knowing any of any possible extenuating circumstances, his judgment is open to question.
//

You obviously aren't the one deciding.  What you are doing, as you stated, is questioning his judgment.  You are doing this before knowing all the facts of what he might be offered or what his progress towards a degree might be.  Leaving his children behind would obviously be difficult, and I find it ridiculous that you would question his judgment if he decides that he could best support them by temporarily moving somewhere where his talent is more highly valued.

I have stated numerous times in this discussion that I do not know all of the relevant facts, and that I am commenting only upon what is already common knowledge. To your credit, AO, you usually follow the content of a thread much better than you're following this one. As to what you do or don't find ridiculous, I honestly could not care less. Based upon the evidence at hand, there is every reason to question the soundness of his judgment if he leaves school early and goes overseas to play for peanuts.

You're joking, right? You can't be the only person in America who hasn't followed the endless parade of abysmal graduation rates, cheating, payoffs, recruiting violations, etc., that has poured across the news over the past twenty years. Clem Haskins ring a bell with you? Dave Bliss? Kelvin Sampson? Bob Huggins? Yeah, it's all up to the individual player in terms of the educational process getting hurt, isn't it?

The incidents of cheating and payoffs has not hurt the educational process as a whole.  They've hurt the individuals who cheat and the programs who have tried to cover it up.   To claim that these incidents means that division 1 has messed with the education process is to ignore the vast majority of kids and programs who don't cheat and don't try to cover it up if they find that the kids did cheat.

I disagree with you, and, more to the point, the vast majority of D1 university presidents disagree with you. The fact of the matter is that sports teams are the most visible manifestations of a D1 institution's public profile, and when the good name of the school gets dragged through the mud because of sports-related indiscretions the institution suffers. That's why university presidents have become much more proactive in recent years in terms of which institutional officer or officers interact(s) with (and, in many cases, administer via committee) the NCAA. It used to be an organization made up of, and addressing the needs of, coaches and athletic directors. Now it's much more of a president-driven organization, and the misbehavior of D1 sports teams is a direct cause of that. Google the name "Myles Brand" and do some reading. Here's something to get you started.

The primary role of an institution of higher learning is to graduate properly educated and prepared students. The role of a D3 college basketball program is to win games without getting in the way of the primary role

Again, no one at Hamline or any program is advocating kids cheat or (for the vast majority of kids) leave school early.   The reality is that a small amount of players might be able to make more money if they leave school early, than if they stayed an additional year.

Short-term, perhaps. But overseas basketball is not a long-term career option, unless you're the rare fish who plays overseas for many years and earns either permanent residency or citizenship in your host country and goes into coaching there. Long-term, there is almost always no substitute for getting a bachelor degree. And, again, this is assuming that there is any substantial money to be made if Brown goes overseas next season, which is highly questionable.

Chasing dreams is all well and good, and I would never want to be someone who stood in the way of someone else's dreams

So..., get out of the way  ----that of course goes for me too.

I was never in his way.

[papahoops]

Double post coming - I may get long WW.

SJU 65, HAM 62
* Initial thoughts - I lay blame on three people for this loss. And it's not the inconsistent referees. A. Brown  B. Hipp and C. Whitmore.

Let me explain.

A. Brown connected on his first shot to make it 5-0, but made only one more outside shot in the poorest basketball performance from a MVP candidate I have ever seen. Sure, he was a pathetic 2-for-11, 2-for-8 from outside and missed a key free throw in the final minute, but it was the other things that bothered me.

He cried all night about the non-calls. It got to be so bad on one possession he was going to be whistled for a foul no matter whether he made contact or not. He then walked to the bench and sat down even though Whitmore had no one at the table for him (Charlie Choiniere got two minutes of playing time because of it). He repeatedly looked at the bench after a missed shot like they were going to do something and he sat at the end of the bench while a unit of Rieg, Andersen, Voigt, Aguirre and Schmidt willed the Pipers back to even at 59 after they once trailed by 15. Almost every player was standing led by Carroll besides Ray.

Please accept my apologies, PI, as I doomed your squad last night by promoting Ray Brown as the leading MVP candidate earlier in the week:'(. I was hopeful that the papahoops curse had run its course with my previous victim that has been well documented on the board, but it is clear the curse still has plenty of staying power. I'm afraid it would be better for a player to be impacted by the famed Sports Illustrated cover jinx than to receive accolades from papahoops this year.  I also see my positive comments on Scott Theisen as a Carleton 6th man this week resulted in a 1-5, 3 point performance, so my apologies should go out to him as well, although Carleton didn't need much from him in an easy victory over MAC.

The one player who has shown himself to be immune to the curse is DP favorite Seth Jonker, who has continued outstanding consistent play after my endorsement of his "game". The ability of Jonker Kong to overcome the power of the paphoops curse is truly impressive

To give all players and teams in the league the opportunity to finish strong this week, I will withold further comment on player capabilities until after the season

[Nites]

Quote from: AO on Yesterday at 11:20:12 pm
Again, no one at Hamline or any program is advocating kids cheat or (for the vast majority of kids) leave school early.   The reality is that a small amount of players might be able to make more money if they leave school early, than if they stayed an additional year.

Greg, now be fair.  AO has a valid point here.  Save and except for the athlete who is getting paid under the table to stay in school and play ball, the player that accepts a job playing ball overseas for a year, even in a lower division, is going to make more that year than he would have made had he stayed in school as a student without gainful employment. 

Now long-term might be another story unless you subscribe to the delusion that the well-recognized career path to the NBA is go to a D-III school and leave early for a stint overseas where you can be scouted and signed by an NBA team.   It happens all the time, doesn't it?     

[wabbit]

The one player who has shown himself to be immune to the curse is DP favorite Seth Jonker, who has continued outstanding consistent play after my endorsement of his "game". The ability of Jonker Kong to overcome the power of the paphoops curse is truly impressive

While Jonkey Kong's (It is Jonkey with a "y". I know because I stole it from those clever Carleton students) ability to circumvent the curse is impressive, has anyone noticed what Sutherland has been doing? His points the last 8 games:

16
13
20
16
30
16
14
22


Last night against the Scots, he had 10 assists and two dunks. He has been guarding the best perimeter player (Brown, Nicoli, etc.) and he and Davis are developing a rapport. Davis fed him on the dunks. They pounded Mac and the Mac players started to get pretty chippy. They undercut Sutherland and fouled Davis hard on a steal and a breakaway for a layup; a flagrant was called. I suppose when the reality of another o'fer season is dawning you might get a little chippy.

[Willy Wonka]

Rather than argue with AO's inane ramblings, let's just agree that the board would be better off without him and go about our business.

He's literally got taken out to the woodshed for almost a week by Greg and keeps coming back for more. It's embarrassing to watch 

[SUMMIT!!!!!]

Rather than argue with AO's inane ramblings, let's just agree that the board would be better off without him and go about our business.

He's literally got taken out to the woodshed for almost a week by Greg and keeps coming back for more. It's embarrassing comical to watch 

sorry, I had to fix that