MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Mr. Ypsi]

Great piece from the OXY coach! I will do some research, I remember seeing the statistics with regard to the % of kids in various high school sports that end up getting college scholarships for athletics. They were pretty sobering.

There was a discussion similar to this on the General Football board ("number of kids playing college football" or something like that).  I pointed out some of the caveats in relying on the published numbers, but the general warning to kids counting on athletics and forgetting academics is nonetheless sound advice.

[Gregory Sager]

It's my belief, that to contend at a D3 national level, the MIAC schools really need to push the envelope and recruit, or develop those borderline D1/2 type players who want the D3 academic, social & athletic experience.  In recent years the St. Thomases, GACs & Macalesters have had their share of big time talent that chose to play D3.  Players such as Tim Brown, Doug Espenson, Isaac Rosefelt, Mike Keating, Bryan Schnettler, Ben Van Thorre, Andy Gilbert etc. that pushed their teams to league prominence, if not a bit of national recognition and respect. 

I'm sure Wonka will disagree with me, but skills wise, I think the league is stocked with solid D3 players.  However, what I think separates us from the powerhouse conferences are the number of highly skilled, superstar type D2/D1 players that play in the other D3 conferences.  Am I right, wrong?

I think that you hit the nail on the head, DP.

While Sumander focuses upon scholie-level transfers in terms of the MIAC's "hosses", I'd say that the greater success is usually (although not always) found in programs that are able to get scholarship-level players right from the get-go, as freshmen. When you go up against, say, D2s and NAIAs in the recruiting wars and you beat them out for a prospect two or three times per annual recruiting cycle -- that's when you're likely to turn the corner and start making some noise on a national D3 level. Of course, that's all relative, though; if the D2s and NAIAs in your neighborhood aren't very good, or if the high schools in your neck of the woods don't play a very good brand of basketball, then beating out the local scholarship schools for Player A and Player B may not make much of a difference in regional or national terms. After all, the powerhouse teams in adjoining states may be drawing a better-quality Player A and Player B away from their D2 and NAIA recruiting rivals. Recruiting success on a national level, therefore, depends upon the richness of your local talent pool and the number and caliber of your scholarship-bearing recruiting rivals.

(Of course, the lay of the land is a little different for the various schools that recruit nationally rather than locally, such as the UAA schools, the NESCAC schools, Wheaton (IL), Gallaudet, etc.)

I also agree with Sumander that the Oxy coach's essay is outstanding, and really captures the essence of how a Top 25 D3 program goes about the business of recruiting.

[sumander]

Thanks Greg. Appreciate your insight. I will be the first to weigh in on a couple of the points you touched on.

1) Outside of the metro area, I don't believe the talent pool is very deep. Certainly there are exceptions to this, but in general there have not been dominant "programs"  outstate. There are a variety of reasons for this, not the least of which is multi sport athletes with BB being there secondary sport. With the NCC, NSIC, DAC-10, recruiting all or large portions of the same territory as the MIAC attracting those border line talents is difficult.

2) I believe there is an ego "thing" involved when choosing between a Dll, Dlll and NAIA school. Rather than choosing a Dlll school kids will choose a place so they can say they are getting a scholarship. I am not saying this is always the case but it plays a factor in the decision. Once a kid gets to the scholarship school other factors come into play and he may rethink the school choice and transfer to a Dlll school he originally looked at.

3) It's been mentioned before but the $$$ also have to play a factor in the decision. The cost of attending a MIAC School versus a state school is double! You only have to have a modest AGI to find your offspring on the wrong side of the financial aid equation. Yes there are academic scholarships for most kids attending private schools. But it is still a significant financial burden for most kids to attend a MIAC school

[Drake Palmer]

Thanks GS & very good points Sum.  I don't have enough time this morning to expand on your points, but I would wholeheartedly agree with each one.  However, I do have time to make one quick quip – "Sunshine" Fogt- D2 (??)transfer from NAIA Jamestown College - ND?    I'll give him his props though, he certainly exceeded my decidedly low expectations last year.  I also think he'll be a threat on the blocks for the Johnnies next year.

Speaking of Johnnies, my bad VOJ –I was just playing with you.   +K buddy. We need all the news we can get during the off-season.

I will toss this into the MN recruiting mix/factors:

1) States with larger populations & historically strong basketball high school traditions such as Illinois, Ohio & Michigan have a larger talent pool to work with.  In the MIAC, a coach would probably have to cover western Wisconsin, MN, the Dakotas & portions of northern IA to reach the same number of recruits as his counterpart in the CCIW.

2) In Wisconsin, the WIAC also has the advantage of few D2 schools to compete with for the basketball student athlete.

3) Working the alumni pipeline

[sumander]

1) States with larger populations & historically strong basketball high school traditions such as Illinois, Ohio & Michigan have a larger talent pool to work with.  In the MIAC, a coach would probably have to cover western Wisconsin, MN, the Dakotas & portions of northern IA to reach the same number of recruits as his counterpart in the CCIW.

Put in other terms, There is a reason that nearly every D-l hockey program's roster is sprinkled with Minnesota kids!

While, the balance is slowly shifting, MN is still a Hockey state!

[abominable_snowman]

Glad to see there are still some people lounging around in the board.  I just got back from a work trip to Texas. 
*************
I like this discussion.  It makes me wonder what other states/regions are heavily skewed in a particular sport? Or perhaps what states produces the most/best collegiate/pro atheletes for a certain sport?

Basketball:
California?  But i could see one of the midwest states

Football:
Since I just came from there, TEXAS

Hockey:
As mentioned, Minnesota

Baseball?
....and for that matter

Soccer? Curling? Swimming? Track/field? Skiing? CHEERLEADING? Darts? Bowling? Archery? Weight lifting? Wrestling? Rugby? Lacrosse? Table Tennis? BEER PONG?

[funbballer]

I will toss this into the MN recruiting mix/factors:

2) In Wisconsin, the WIAC also has the advantage of few D2 schools to compete with for the basketball student athlete.

I don't think Wiscy has any D2 schools do they? That's why the WIAC, IMO, has stronger athletes/better programs than the MIAC.

And, most MIAC coaches for the most part, recruit in their respective geopgraphic regions....i.e., the Cobbers have very few metro players, Hanson at GAC has very few metro players as he prefers the small town player, UST has very few outstate kids on their roster, HU has a pretty fair mix, although it sounds like they're losing their best one to a D2 program, STO has a good mix of metro vs outstate, SJU would be in that same definition, SMU has usually more out-of-state players as they have that southern Wiscy/Chicago pipeline; Auggie has a good mix and, etc. etc.

Of the HS senior class, I've heard several schools say they have the "inside" track on guys like Ortmann, Nicholai (sp?), Omshceid, etc., so it should be interesting to see where all they fellas land.

Cmob.....spring/summer is great time for those big hefer steaks, triple burgers, etc. Your neighboring school, Lakeville South, sure had a boat load of cry babies and whiners. What a disgusting bunch, led by #11....in the state tourney, he should have been "T'd" up about 4 times! (I know this has been discussed at length, so I won't belabor it anymore....)

[Drake Palmer]

I will toss this into the MN recruiting mix/factors:

2) In Wisconsin, the WIAC also has the advantage of few D2 schools to compete with for the basketball student athlete.

I don't think Wiscy has any D2 schools do they? That's why the WIAC, IMO, has stronger athletes/better programs than the MIAC....

Funbb- nice to see you back on the board. 

Somedays, it's better to be lucky than good.  I knew Wisky had less than a handful of D2 schools, so when I went to the website of the only D2 school I was aware of in WI, UW Parkside, I stumbled across this link: D2 Colleges by State
//

[Nites]

Glad to see there are still some people lounging around in the board.  I just got back from a work trip to Texas. 
*************
I like this discussion.  It makes me wonder what other states/regions are heavily skewed in a particular sport? Or perhaps what states produces the most/best collegiate/pro atheletes for a certain sport?

Basketball:
California?  But i could see one of the midwest states

Football:
Since I just came from there, TEXAS

Hockey:
As mentioned, Minnesota

Baseball?
....and for that matter

Soccer? Curling? Swimming? Track/field? Skiing? CHEERLEADING? Darts? Bowling? Archery? Weight lifting? Wrestling? Rugby? Lacrosse? Table Tennis? BEER PONG?

Football is still king in Texas, but the hoopsters are getting better and better and the state is a very fertile ground for recruiting big-time BB players.  In football, Southlake Carroll (1st, 2nd and 1st in last three national polls).  In basketball, Duncanville High at 39-0 was ranked from 2nd to 5th in various national polls.

[columbianmaffia]

Cmob.....spring/summer is great time for those big hefer steaks, triple burgers, etc. Your neighboring school, Lakeville South, sure had a boat load of cry babies and whiners. What a disgusting bunch, led by #11....in the state tourney, he should have been "T'd" up about 4 times! (I know this has been discussed at length, so I won't belabor it anymore....)

funballer! i like it...the heart of steak and tripple burger season is right around the corner...cant wait to man the grill with a boombalaty  on each arm holding my cocktail

[funbballer]

Cmob...who you picking to win the BB championship? I'm going with Georetown in what might be considered a mild upset.....only because everyone is talking about the other 3 teams so much. Cinderalla baby....here come the Hoyas!!!

[columbianmaffia]

i agree...i think g-town is gonna take it...unless connely goes off for OSU...i think that is OSUs only chance to win to have a big game from him

[Mr. Ypsi]

FWIW, The Ann Arbor News reported an informal poll of Michigan coaches and players today (UMich lost to G'town and UCLA, and lost 3 times to OSU): the unanimous pick was G'town.

[ustbumkneez]

Sum, in regards to the McDonalds game, youre right that the pace was not playing to Aldrichs talents. However, that pace didnt stop a guy like Kevin Love (low post scorer who is not as comfortable in a full court game, in the same vein as Aldrich) from making a huge impact. Thats what seperates top tier caliber center prospects like Love from good prospects like Aldrich. Enough people have mentioned it, but Love found a way to stand out with something as basic as outlet passing. Aldrich could contribute in 2 years at Kansas, but Love will be one of the top players in the country next year-and that difference showed in the game. Out of all the big men in the game, Aldrich was arguably the most forgettable. Thats not a horrible thing, considering it was a Big Mans showcase (Mayo and Gordon failed to impress, as the 'pundits' promised). If your an Aldrich fan, youve got to be a little leery of him going to a coach like Self, whos notorious for not developing players and underachieving with superior talent (this year being the most egregious failure).

[Mr. Ypsi]

FWIW, The Ann Arbor News reported an informal poll of Michigan coaches and players today (UMich lost to G'town and UCLA, and lost 3 times to OSU): the unanimous pick was G'town.

Oops - just re-read the morning papers: it was the Detroit Free Press (not AANews) and just the three recently-departed asst. coaches (no players), but they did unanimously pick the Hoyas to go all the way.  Final score: OSU 67, G'town 60.  (Maybe this helps explain why they are now former Michigan coaches! )