MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[BDB]

I can understand why, Stoutguy.  I have problems when I'm falling down drunk too. 

I'll bet you he has a receipt BDB.  He's probably going to call it an "entertainment expense" and run a tax scam when he files.   Those radio personalities do it all the time.

No receipt, BW.

However, he did go over to the dessert table at the luncheon and bring Rico 21 and I some cookies. When he set them down, he said "Here you go guys, these are on me!"

Now you've got to give the guy some credit for his quick wit and running with a joke.

But then, he is a radio personality.  

[mab]

It was a pretty ugly game in Oshkosh last night.  The first half had all the excitement of a Washington State vs St. Louis U. preseason scrimmage, and the second half looked like a UW Superior intra squad game.  Both teams might be the best defensively I have seen in a long time, but it looks like they forgot about the other end of the court.

I wanted to wait until I saw all the top teams in the conference before reaching a final decision, and now I would have to say this is a very down year in the WIAC.  I expected Osh, WW and Stout to be much improved over last year, and they aren't.  Osh has struggled all year, WW has a big hole in the middle where Griffin used to be, and Stout looked a lot better in the one game I saw them play than a team that has lost four conference games with this level of competition.  Lax has made a nice move up, and SP has done quite well considering how much they lost from last year.  SP is going to have a good future once they recruit some post players to go with all the good young perimeter players.  I hate to say it, but the winner of the conference tourney is going to make a quick exit once they start playing teams from other conferences.

[janesvilleflash]

Funny you should post that mab, as I considered posting the same thing about the conf. talent level. I agree that it way down this year, and don't hold much hope for anyone making much noise in the NCAA's.

[voice]

Mab - Quick exit in the NCAA Tourney - isn't that what everyone was saying about Whitewater in the NCAA Football Tourney?

[John Gleich]

I really think we need to see the brackets before we pronounce the WIAC team(s) as dead in the water...  With this expanded tourney, there are quite a few more teams and games...  It really depends where the games are played, and who the opponents are, IMO.

If there are three WIAC teams (which is an outside possibility) I think someone makes at least the Sweet 16.

Down or not, the WIAC teams still have the experience of playing a grueling conference schedule...  Which ever team(s) make it out are pretty well equipped to play against other teams throughout the country, whoever that may be.

[titan2000]

//

Oshkosh played great defense last night and held Whitewasher to a measly 59 points!!  Wow.  Talk about moral victories.

[Pat Coleman]

Mapquest is right, that IS the shortest distance. However, MS Streets and Trips does not take that route -- it sends people on U.S. 151 out of Fon Du Lac to Sheboygan instead of Route 23, which is a straight line.

Sometimes the "shortest possible distance" setting isn't the shortest possible distance. This is one of those times. UW-La Crosse is therefore not a regional game.

Pat, I don't suppose there is any appeal in those cases where Streets and Trips is PROVABLY wrong?

[I'll psych out the response]:

No?  Didn't think so.

Yeah, no. The standard is the standard. It's written out in black and white for a reason.

[mab]

A long time ago I stopped following football and replaced that with being a soccer fan, but didn't anyone saying Whitewater wouldn't get far in the NCAA football tournament have to do with them getting jobbed in the bracket they were assigned to.  That always seems to be the case with WIAC teams, and that may have something to do with my feeling about the upcoming basketball tourney.  I remember going out of my way to see our hero Pat Coleman, live and in person, on ESPNews going over the DIII football selections, and thinking why did they put all the top teams in one part of the brackets.  If any of the basketball teams rolled through the regular season the way the Warhawk football team did, I would be more optimistic at this point.

[Greek Tragedy]

This is D3, not D1.  You'll never see the likes of three CCIW teams or whatever sent to different regions like you do in D1.  In D1, they split those teams up and can't meet until the sectionals or something like that. 

It's all about costs.  It doesn't matter that the highest ranking teams (according to the NCAA) are all in the same "region".  You'll hardly ever see highly ranked teams separated simply because "it would be nice to see them in the Final Four together."  The only exception you'll see is out east where the regions are close enough the NCAA can afford to ship a team out (i.e. Williams and Amherst two years ago when one was shipped out and they met in the semi-finals).

Last year there wa a big complaint that Ill. Wes. and Point were put in the same bracket, only for Ill. Wes. to get knocked out prior to meeting Point.  The east region and the other region out there were so bad (shown by the record blowouts at the Final Four) that posters wanted a Great Lakes team shipped out East.  So it goes.  It will never change.  In these parts of the nation, it's really hard to split up such teams. 

[John Gleich]

Mab,

Something to think about... since the Pool System began in 1999-2000, the WIAC has made it past the first round in EVERY season.  We also have made it past the second round in every post season instance but two (Eau Claire in 2000-2001, when the top 3 conference tourney seeds got upset in the first round and the 4 seed, Eau Claire, won the bid) and in 2002-2003 when Point was upset in the second round by Gustavus Adolphus in the second round after a first round bye.  That's six out of the last 8 WIAC post season teams making at least the Sweet 16.  In fact, in the past 6 seasons, the WIAC is 24-6, with 6 Sweet 16 berths, 5 Elite 8 berths, and 3 Final Fours (one National Runner-up and two National Championships).

I actually compare this season to the 2001-2002 season.  The regular season conference title that year was shared by Point, Whitewater, and Oshkosh, with Whitewater knocking off Point in the conference tourney semi's (coming back from a 13 point halftime defeat and winning by 7) and Oshkosh knocking off the Warhawks on a Tim Dworak 3 with the clock running out.  This Oshkosh team was a team primarily of Juniors, and the "stars" of the league (Dworak, Iserloth, Lewis-Byers, and Melzer) were Juniors and a Sophomore.

Not only was the league favorite this year, Oshkosh, Junior laden, just like in 01-02, the best producers in the conference are underclassmen this year.  Only 7 of the top 30 scorers, 5 of the top 20 rebounders, 3 of the top 15 assist men, and, perhaps the most telling stat, 3 of the top 15 minute-getters are Seniors.

The plain fact is that this league is a Senior-led league.  I've said it a bunch of times this year, but the reason why this league appears to be down is a lack of Senior leadership.

Look at the conference champs from these 6 years: In 99-00, Point, lead by Senior Brant Bailey, ran away with the conference title by two games and made it to the Elite, where they were beaten by a Sherm Carstensen 30 footer.  Eau Claire's senior-lead team made it all the way to the National Championship and likely would have won if not for the injury to Wallenfelsz; 00-01, no team really dominated, Point and Whitewater tied for the title, with EC and RF one game back and Sup and Oshkosh 2 games back;  01-02, like I noted above; 02-03, Point manages to run away with the league by 3 games with primarily a Sophomore dominated league (Point is the anomaly I'll mention later), but it is Senior-led Oshkosh who recieves the automatic bid and makes the tournament run and the Elite 8.  Point recieved an at-large bid and was upset by eventual National Runner-up Gustavus Adolphus; 03-04, Senior-lead River Falls wins the conference title but can't get it done in the conference tourney, and Point does it the hard way, having to win the conference tourney to get an NCAA bid, en-route to Point's first National Championship; 04-05, Senior-lead Point and Platteville win the league, and Point runs away with their second straight National Title.

Point was the anomaly, but this was a very special Point team, winning back-to-back titles for just the 3rd time in D3 history.  Interestingly, though, a Superior team lead by Senior Cody Kastern that beat Point not once, but twice (including on the last night of the season) to keep the Pointers from winning their 5th consecutive league crown.  However, this was a very special team (dubbed by this site as one of the best of all time) that won two National Titles.


Basically... the league has gone through growing pains this season.  There have been some stand-out teams at times... Oshkosh appeared to be back on track, but they've lost 4/5 in a pretty monumental collapse.  Stout has had a pretty consistent year, but they lost 3 straight mid-season, got everything righted... until Point came to town again.  I think they may be on track for an at-large bid (Hear it here first... the winner of La Crosse/Stout game gets an at-large bid!) but they've gotta go to La Crosse... and Coach Koelbl's team beat the Blue Devils in Menominee.  Whitewater faltered a bit in the mid-season, strangely losing at home to Stout and Oshkosh, but they seem poised to win their first outright title in 12 years, and they already claimed their 3rd title at least partial title in the past six.

[Gregory Sager]

Point was the anomaly, but this was a very special Point team, winning back-to-back titles for just the 3rd time in D3 history.

You all know how much I hate to put on my Mr. Nitpicky hat, but it was actually the fourth time that a team won back-to-back titles in D3 history.

1979 -- North Park repeated '78 title
1980 -- North Park repeated '79 title
1999 -- UW-Platteville repeated '98 title
2005 -- UWSP repeated '04 title

Still, it was a very comprehensive and enlightening post, PS. I especially give a thumbs-up to the part about senior leadership. Kudos.

(Hear it here first... the winner of La Crosse/Stout game gets an at-large bid!)

I tend to agree, contingent upon the winner of that game not going on to win the WIAC tourney and thus the WIAC's Pool A bid. If I was just a general WIAC fan or a fan of one of the teams not involved, I'd be rooting for the winner of the game between the Eagles and Blue Devils to get all the way to the WIAC tourney final, and then lose.

[Greek Tragedy]

Point was the anomaly, but this was a very special Point team, winning back-to-back titles for just the 3rd time in D3 history.

Maybe he meant TEAM!    OK, definitely not.

On another note:

Well, it's settled, Point will make the NCAA tourney and not win it all.  They've been  to the NCAA tourney five times and won the last two. They lost to Nebraska Wes. in 1997, Eau Claire and 2000 and Gustavus Adolphus in 2003.  If my Lakeland math is correct, that's every three years, thus in 2006 they'll lose!  Of course, good news to the guys who beat them because Nebraska Wes., Eau Claire and Gustavus Adolphus all made the championship game (though they ended up losing)!!!

And yet on another note:

If La Crosse tops Stout and both lose in the conference tourney (preferrably one in the tourney final vs. Point), I could see Stout and La Crosse getting Pool C bids.  I say La Crosse over Stout this weekend because even with the loss, Stout wouldn't drop too far from their #2 regional ranking.  Both would have six in-region losses and though I've said all season long that's bubble material, it's looking more and more like that could be enough to get them in. 

As noted previously, #1 ranked west region team Occidental has already lost this week, as has #4 Wartburg.  Occidental could very well lose this weekend vs. conference leading Claremont-Mudd-Scripps (or better yet, WIN, and finish off the rest of the SCIAC schedule unscaved and take the Pool A slot with a sweep of CMS-no conference tourney, I believe).  #3 Puget Sound takes on co-leader Willamette this weekend as well. 

Easiest case would be for Occidental to win the SCIAC and for Wartburg, ST. Thomas and Puget Sound to win their conference tourneys, leaving the top of the West Regional Rankings to the WIAC teams...easier said than done! 

[stoutguy]

Old School,
How did you get this smart?  Really.  Are you this smart about non-basketball issues?    You just blow me away with your basketball information.  I could sit here and listen to you all day.

[BDB]

Old School,
How did you get this smart?  Really.  Are you this smart about non-basketball issues?    You just blow me away with your basketball information.  I could sit here and listen to you all day.

I'm with you on that thought, stoutguy.

Guys like OS and Gregory Sager, et al, just blow me away.

I have a hard time trying to figure out what to have for lunch! 

[badgerwarhawk]

That was an excellent post PS.  I've commented on occassion this year that the league has several decent teams but none that are outstanding.  Everybody has some good players but nobody has a Melzer, a Kalsow or a Dworak.   I agree with the senior thing wholeheartedly and only have to look at the WARHAWKS[/color] to confirm.  There are several reasons that WHITEWATER[/color] has a chance to put this thing away despite being little more than an after thought to Oshkosh and Stout this year.  One of them is the leadership of seniors Jeremy Manchester and Melvin Williams.  Williams was injured early and it took him a while to get into full stride but right now he's leading by example and may be one of the best defenders in the league.  This is is hard as I've ever seen him play.  Manchester also has a significant impact on a game and we're a much better team with him on the floor.   Some nights he scores but even when he doesn't he'll have a line that includes 5 rebounds and 5 assists.  He helps the team in so many ways that it's difficult to overstate his value.   I'm not sure others in the league see that but we do.  

There's still a long way for us to go to reach the NCAA tournament and senior leadership isn't going to take us there by itself.  It can only take you so far, we all know that.   But whether we make it or not I do think it's playing a significant role in how this season has played out for us thus far.   There's little doubt in my mind that we wouldn't be as good a team without it even if we had replacements as skilled.

This has been another great season in the WIAC despite the league being a little down and it's only going to get more interesting when the conference tournament begins.  



I have to admit that I don't even try to argue with Greg anymore.  He's way, way out of my league and he's actually convinced me that he was right on occassion.  Old School is a Greg in training.